Following the announcement from the ATF that the Honey Badger Pistol was not a pistol, but in fact, an SBR, it seems like the rumors of an ATF going after pistol braces may be true. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Various styles of attachment allow the braces to be custom fit to any user. Moving back out to Cali tomorrow. Pistol Brace Ban Rearing Its Ugly Head, Again. There is probably no need to submit the above to the ATF, since that's pretty much what they're already saying in the rule making proposal. "Regulation is law", and "The ATF has no power to create regulation"? The ATF is actually empowered, by law and lots of constitutional court cases, to write regulations (see Chevron for the best example). We as gun owners need to band together and fight against / challenge unconstitutional decisions that these Dept. My only concern is that it’s a bit of a long drive. Or, better said, partial pistol brace ban. Do you mean now that Barr has resigned? Even justices get it wrong.. often. In this case, as in many others, the legislature (congress) has given the ATF the power to write regulation, and enforce it. Rainier Arms. A very well known firearms lawyer … I suppose this comment 'won't be counted', then. And if 90% of the comments received are clueless stuff like that, that doesn't look good. Sorry, this post was deleted by the person who originally posted it. You know what looks kind of similar? Regulation is law and the ATF has no power to create such. All said power arises from the Constitution's seperation. I think that is why ATF rescinded the ban on pistol stocks ... pistols now law abiding citizens will pay price as always yet those hillbilly idiots will blame government if they ban some arm brace pistols styles. The neutering of my guns has begun, Ordered 08/28/20 and finally picked up tonight, felt like an eternity, She’s finally ready to go shoot. Those get combined as one comment. So, the ATF released a statement that said shouldering a pistol brace would make your pistol an SBR, which is illegal: "Consequently, the attachment of the SB-15 brace to an AR-type pistol alone; would not change the classification of the pistol to an SBR. The ATF has suddenly and unexpectedly backed off on its efforts to force owners of pistol braces to register their firearms equipped with them under the NFA. I have NEVER seen one used as they claim it should be used. Tag: Brace ban. So, if you asked me for my non-expert input: based on a small sample, braces are solely being used to circumvent SBR laws. This guidance comes after a lot of quesitons as to when you could or could not put a vertical foregrip on an AR pistol. I agree, we can say that but in a nicer way so the comment can go on record. With the leak of a new letter showing that ATF is opening up a public comment period ahead of finalizing their “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with Stabilizing Braces” document, there is renewed fear of an impending pistol brace ban. As opposed to Unconstitutional ones? It is our duty to remain informed and make ourselves heard: Compliant products for the post-2017 AWB. I have a AR pistol with a pinned magazine. These people are going to make these weapons more dangerous. I've played this game before (not with the ATF, with the CA DoJ), and some of my comments were quoted in the report. Angry politicians started crying foul over the Sig shoulder brace saga. Yes, the implication of my reasoning is a great many injustice has been done by this illegal assuming of regulatory powers that are not granted such authority from the Constitution (and clearly granted to other branches, to boot). You are currently reading "ATF Withdraws Pistol Brace Guidance", entry #26486 on The Captain's Journal.This article is filed under the category(s) BATFE and was published December 23rd, 2020 by Herschel Smith. If you submit this comment, it will immediately go into the waste basket. So yes, if a vendor creates a thing that is made out of 5 pounds of bacon, but it carefully designed to easily clip to the back of a Glock and be shouldered (how the heck to do this is left as an exercise for a mechanical engineering student ...), then it is a gun stock, and the Glock with the stock becomes an SBR. All you fudd-cucks are the reason the government thinks they can infringe on our rights. Several comments have already drawn similar inference, and fuck what these people think are profane. How's that comment? "You're not an office of the Legislature, you don't get to write the rules of law. However, the proliferation of pistol braces eventually caused them to (somewhat) see the light and, in 2019, issued a new memorandum, which they declared the “final ruling.” The new rule was that incidental, situational, or spontaneous use of a pistol brace as a shoulder stock didn’t constitute converting an AR pistol into an SBR. Please include full name and mailing address. I commented yesterday and I really encourage others to do so (even if they do not own a pistol with a brace). Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. 2014: ATF rules against shouldering braces. This isn't a game, this is the governance of the United States; Unconstitutional maneuvers portend dire consequence. Do you feel that 'circumventing' a law is an illegal act? It's clearly spelled out - the writing of regulations is the writing of law and the sole domain of the legislature if you expect such edicts to be enforced by the United States Constitution. https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/5881/attachments/original/1608175224/SBCriteria.AS_SUBMITTED.pdf?1608175224, BREAKING: ATF to Issue Guidance on “Stabilizing Braces”. The title references the news arriving tomorrow and you can reasonably consider the comment period as one step of the overall ban. U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz announced on his podcast "Hot Takes with Matt Gaetz" the ATF is crafting new rules concerning pistol braces. In was back in 2013 when inventor Alex Bosco came up with the pistol brace and after letter back from BATFE about the legality of the newly created device Bosco found himself in partnership with Sig Sauer and the SB-15 pistol brace … I commented yesterday and I really encourage others to do so (even if they do not own a pistol with a brace). They made it pretty clear we cannot use profanity in comments or they won’t be counted. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: Welcome to the California Guns subreddit! Sponsored Content Open Source Defense: ... As we discussed yesterday, the comment period is open for the ATF’s proposed rulemaking on certain pistol stabilizing braces. Featured Photo: SBT Adjustable Brace courtesy of SBT. 90.5k members in the gunpolitics community. It's clearly spelled out - the writing of regulations is the writing of law and the sole domain of the legislature. Home. No profanity. Along comes this bullshit “arm brace” which we all know is a fake description of a shoulder stock, and the industry tries to make it out as actually something people use to “stabilize” a pistol. It’s a gamble of course because if Trump wins your pistol … Sadly, the first part of the comment is factually incorrect. If they can't ban the firearms they want to ban then they just create new rules to turn most owners into overnight felons stripping them of their rights ... Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Share. I just purchased a ruger charger pistol and have seen many videos online of adding a pistol brace, which is apparently legal as long as you do not intentionally shoulder the firearm. Essentially, as it stands today, there is no illegal way to fire a pistol with all legal parts making how you use the brace to assist in stabilizing or shot a moot point. Can someone post it and the website where I can comment on the proposed changes? [–]problemgrumblingTHE ANSWER IS 10(MM) 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago* (2 children). [–]treefaeller 2 points3 points4 points 2 months ago (8 children). But if a specific device is sold with both the intent of the seller and the use by the buyer to circumvent the law banning a particular set of devices, it should not be surprising that the "law" (in this particular case regulation) is updated to include that new device in the ban. If you have a good argument for why braces should be legal ... write it. Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. on crossing state lines), a pistol with a stabilizing brace remains just a normal pistol like any other.This is because a pistol brace is not a shoulder stock. The few braces I saw in the flesh were clearly being used as shoulder stocks; it is actually super easy to spot them at the range, because it looks like someone is firing an SBR with a really silly stock (sort of hunched over and folded). A Pistol Stabilizing Brace uses the shooter’s forearm to provide significant support and balance, thereby minimizing shift and spin that affect accuracy. Pistol brace ban. [–]idfkbroineedaname 1 point2 points3 points 2 months ago (0 children), [–]dL_EVO[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago (0 children), https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/its-time-make-yourself-heard-re-atfs-latest-attack-on-pistol-braces/. Tax law may be different. We encourage any and all lawful discussions of California firearms and related laws; please remain on topic and be respectful to others. [–]dL_EVO[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 months ago (1 child). …as a “brace”. Gaetz said he and six of his congressional colleagues have sent a letter to the acting ATF director, Regina Lombardo, and Atty. And: The supreme court has the power to interpret what the constitution means (see Marbury). IMG Jim Grant The Department of Justice told the ATF’s industry side not to move on pistol braces … I wouldn't see why, you can put a pistol brace on a pistol and it doesn't become a rifle, short barrel or otherwise (although I'm not sure if NYS has ever ruled on that, and we all know that they pay about as much attention to the federal definitions for these things as … Pursue Your Passion. But in my experience (as a somewhat experienced pistol shooter, including having lost the use of my strong hand for about 2 years after a set of surgeries, fortunately it all came back), the need of a person with only one useful arm for self defense would be better served with a regular (non-AR) pistol. Or do you mean the ATF meeting with the Biden team recently? Treat all guns as if they're loaded (even when you know they aren't). You’re a doofus. [–]problemgrumblingTHE ANSWER IS 10(MM) 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago* (0 children), it should not be surprising that the "law" (in this particular case regulation) is updated. Now that i found the link to it i will for sure be commenting. Press J to jump to the feed. Pistols fitted with a stabilizing brace that once measured more than 26″ overall length (exempting it from NFA regulations) are now not allowed to include the brace in its overall length measurement with the vertical foregrip, meaning if it now falls under 26″ under the new measurement, they are now subject to NFA regulation unless the foregrip is removed. Visit Calguns.net to discuss 2nd Amendment politics and activism issues and learn about California litigation and legal updates. I don't own an AR pistol, and have never examined a brace closely, but I've seen detailed pictures on the web. So you can't put a stock or vertical grip or anything else that you couldn't previously. I encourage all to comment.. please we need more comments. The legislature is perfectly capable of updating a law, as is within their power, should they deem it. I paid the $200 tax stamp for each of my SBR’s. [–]problemgrumblingTHE ANSWER IS 10(MM) -2 points-1 points0 points 2 months ago (0 children). The brace, while similar to a rifle stock, ... likely targeting all of the makers of AR pistols, and even ban the AR-15, dubbed by liberals as an assault weapon. I once again posit that an office of the Executive branch may not create or update law in ANY fashion, only execute it. The History of the Brace . If you 'shoulder' five pounds of wrapped bacon and press a handgun into it do you feel that the bacon legally becomes a gun stock? For a deeper dive into the legal history of braces check out our write-up on Pistol Braces & The ATF. We were able to be effective when they were trying to ban M855 ammo. Follow Reddit's rules and have a pleasant stay! Many in the shooting and hunting space have already sounded the alarm over the pending ATF pistol brace rule change. [–]gegunner1 2 points3 points4 points 2 months ago (2 children). A Little History Lesson. Pistol brace design has evolved over time, but this classic pistol brace remains of the industries favorites. We have weapons registered to us already, CA DOJ has this information already. Politics / … The Pistol Brace is NOT A STOCK, but can be used on AK47, AR15 ,FAL, and other Style Pistols available AR-15 Pistol Brace. This is pedantry and you are being the Pointlessly Argumentative Internet Guy. Any instance of this from 3/21/2018 forward will be removed. Rendered by PID 21793 on r2-app-02c35fe1cfb66f0d8 at 2021-02-23 23:27:23.816528+00:00 running b1d2781 country code: US. Never point the muzzle at anything you aren't willing to destroy. Sorry, that's complete nonsense. Or what about the ar-9? Seems like you would write a great comment analysis to counter their upcoming ruling on pistol braces. Use this sub to discuss and ask questions about California's gun laws and politics. A recent post circulating Facebook may just highlight things to come. The idea of the AR pistol brace can be attributed to US veteran, Alex Bosco, in 2012. This is Reddit's home for Californian firearms owners and enthusiasts, but anyone and everyone is welcome to join our community. The weight of a good or bad argument doesn't change with whether they receive 1 or a million copies of it. They will never learn. I didn’t see a link to the leaked documents in the article. I know. You don't and I don't, but SCOTUS does. It sucks. [–]treefaeller 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago (3 children). Thread starter Sean K. Start date Oct 7, 2020; Sean K. Well-Known Member. If you are just writing "to be counted", don't even bother. This isn't a game, this is the governance of the United States; Unconstitutional maneuvers portend dire consequence. This handy adapter successfully transforms your nose-heavy AR pistol into a functional weapon in a matter of minutes. There is a legal pathway to changing the wording and interpretation of the Constitution, but it involves a Congress, not the writing of a law. In these cases, it's better to be safe than sorry. If you submit this comment, it will immediately go into the waste basket. Know your target and what is beyond it (avoid any and all collateral damage). Just need some better iron sights that aren’t these cheap amazon ones. Fuck along, now." Fortunately, things like the Super Redhawk and the Glock 20 are already legally available to serve that need. You don't seem to understand the legal landscape. The legislature cannot give the ATF power to write law. ATF - Pistol Brace Comments (self.CAguns), Can we get a roll call to those are have or are going to comment regarding the ATFs clarification around pistol stabilizing braces. The 4 Rules of Gun Safety ("The 4 Rules"). One manufacturer told them that people with limited mobility use the braces to fire AR-15 pistols and cut down on forearm bruising when they’re shooting with one arm. THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T PASS A LAW STATING BRACES ARE ILLEGAL AND THE EXECUTIVE DIDN'T RATIFY ANY SUCH LAW. We as gun owners need to band together and fight against / challenge unconstitutional decisions that these Dept. This is again a right to be taken from us that won’t solve a thing. I have not seen very many braces myself, only a few at the range. of Justice agents decide on because who knows what other future opinions that could affect the same people who could care less about the braces. We need to ban together regardless if you own a pistol brace or not. The ATF has announced new guidance on how it will determine the overall length of AR pistols and what does or does not enter into NFA territory when is comes to pistols utilizing a stabilizing brace along with other accessories. Don't incriminate yourself or others by what you post; for example, refrain from posting images of non-CA compliant rifles, as others may assume that you own an illegal "assault weapon". More posts from the gunpolitics community. Idk when this will take into effect but how would this affect age requirements for lower receivers? An adult trying to shoot a kid's rifle with a a 10" or 12" LOP. I am far more offended at the constant and often successful attempts to exceed the Constitutional bounds of power than the mere language of my complaint. This is the pistol brace that started it all. Jesus fucking Christ do you guys actually read the articles? It's nice for your side of the argument that most courts in the land of the law accept it, but it's nice for my side of the argument that there has been constant surpassing of the limits of governing power by all branches in many cases; one example the claim that the Supreme Court can interpret the Constitution itself, when the Judiciary is granted only the power to interpret law UNDER the Constitution, by writ. As per reddit's new rules, all advertising, selling, or trading of firearms, ammunition, or accessories are now prohibited. Sure, continue believing that. THEREFORE THEY ARE LEGAL. Editor’s Note: As we know the BATFE later walked back their walk back after a legal challenge from SB Tactical. Attach your "legal" stock to a pistol, and get arrested, convicted and sentenced for creating, possessing and using an SBR. LOUNGE. I’ll highlight some insights a number of others have already brought up, but let’s start with a big one that I think is the crux of the matter: The “holistic” approach the ATF brass is embracing. Ban this dick fedboi. The Gun Politics subreddit is about sharing news, articles, stories and events … If you have a good argument for why braces should be legal ... write it. Don’t include your name and address? I believe this system was created to prevent the tyranny of a corrupt, self-serving officer of one branch, or a cabal of such. The MCX pistol with a folding brace is super compact and easy to carry. However, ATF is absolutely attempting to crack down on what it will consider a pistol… Think this is a good alternative to Hodge Road for training? And as the owner of a magnum revolver, I have experience shooting handguns at 1600 ft-lbs, even one-handed (not pleasant, but doable), but those are guns that are carefully designed to be used without a stock. The California Assault Weapon Identification Flowchart, The California Handgun Identification Flowchart, The California Shotgun Identification Flowchart. Technical Note: while an SBR — a short barreled rifle — is regulated by the NFA, enforced by the ATF, and is a special class of firearm requiring registration, payment of a $200 tax, and other restrictions (e.g. If you deem a regulation a law then an office of the Executive branch has no right to create them. Stop registering your shit. Avoid abusive language. Do not copy and paste another comment you found. I don't think anything in law, regulation or common sense says that gun stocks have to be made out of walnut and not out of bacon. We're here not only to discuss but to educate; users may not have seen previous posts so we highly encourage re-posts rather than forbid them and recommend waiting at least a week before re-posting. Seriously, you can buy a whole AR pistol for a bit more money than you will spend on this one AR-15 accessory. 51 votes, 37 comments. The ATF's power is enforcement ONLY, and regulation is only in the assistance of enforcement, not the 'clarification' of the lawful directive. The mag is not removable so it is our duty to remain informed and make ourselves heard Compliant... Tubes, pistol tubes, pistol tubes, pistol stabilizers, and side folding braces AR. The writing of regulations is the governance of the United States ; unconstitutional maneuvers dire. But in a nicer way so the comment can go on record the Pointlessly Argumentative Internet Guy as. The MCX pistol with a a 10 '' or 12 '' LOP put this information already ago * 2... With a folding brace is made from soft polymer rubber and is incredibly thick who. I once again posit that an office of the most used and most sold braces a challenge... Of quesitons as to when you could n't previously, it will a! 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Receive 1 or a million copies of it live in CA are the... The legislative privileges proscribed in the article that started it all to interpret what Constitution... This site constitutes acceptance of our user Agreement and Privacy Policy 0 points1 point2 points 2 months ago ( children. ; Sean K. Start date Oct 7, 2020 ; Sean K. date... As gun owners need to band together and fight against / challenge unconstitutional decisions that these Dept you could could... And lots of constitutional court cases received are clueless stuff like that that! Pass a law then an office of the overall ban a legal challenge from Tactical... Lower receivers 3 children ) % of the AR pistol it does n't change with whether they receive or! Brace can be attributed to US veteran, Alex Bosco, in 2012 and still. Paste another comment you found litany of Const Amendment violations feeds, and anyone with a a 10 '' 12. Remain on topic and be respectful to others but in a nicer way so the comment go! 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